Clip-p-ping on

[Chiara’s slave]

PS it's not always calm in fog.

Once outside Lake Solent, my memories of fog are usually a very horrible slopping about if there’s no wind. It seems to occur after a blow, with the wind dropping away to near zero, leaving the swell behind. Or perhaps I’m especially unlucky.

 

[capnsensible]

Once outside Lake Solent, my memories of fog are usually a very horrible slopping about if there’s no wind. It seems to occur after a blow, with the wind dropping away to near zero, leaving the swell behind. Or perhaps I’m especially unlucky.

Places like Biscay, Bay of Cadiz and the Alboran sea can often give heavier airs with fog. And sometimes flat calm!

That sloppy sea and fog can sometimes be found down the coast of Portugal too.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I had a Hunter Sonata that I used to sail single handed in the Bristol Channel. It was a lively boat with hanked-on jibs, in a stretch of water prone to short, steep, irregular waves, so I clipped on pretty much any time I went forward.
I had a lengthy of webbing running from beside the hatch, forward round the mast, and back to the other side of the hatch with a little bit of slack in it, then another bit of webbing running centrally from mast to mooring cleat to get me out to the forestay. I used short tethers and shuffled around on my bum a lot in any kind of swell.
In retrospect I don't know what I was thinking with that boat, it was wildly unsuitable for the use I put it to. But I had fun with it, and if nothing else I never fell off.

 

[johnalison]

I had a Hunter Sonata that I used to sail single handed in the Bristol Channel. It was a lively boat with hanked-on jibs, in a stretch of water probe to short, steep, irregular waves, so I clipped on pretty much any time I went forward.
I had a lengthy of webbing running from beside the hatch, forward round the mast, and back to the other side of the hatch with a little bit of slack in it, then another bit of webbing running centrally from mast to mooring cleat to get me out to the forestay. I used short tethers and shuffled around on my bum a lot in any kind of swell.
In retrospect I don't know what I was thinking with that boat, it was wildly unsuitable for the use I put it to. But I had fun with it, and if nothing else I never fell off.

I don't think I ever took any precautions on my 26' boat when doing foredeck work such as changing sails or working the spinnaker. I attribute my undeserved survival to the fact that I was young and immortal. (...and no-one change that to immoral please)

 

[Sandy]

I remember hearing/reading something about not clipping on in fog. When the big thing emerges from the soupy grey and breaks your boat in half, you don't really want to be attached to either half of it as they bubble down.

Clearly the crew did not hear the 'big thing' in the fog.

Rule 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

 

[Daedelus]

My wife's comment on keeping a lookout "Just because ship's got windows doesn't mean anyone is looking out through them"

Mark you, she has a firm conviction that the Portsmouth - Wootton ferry was out to get her.

 

[Koeketiene]

I remember hearing/reading something about not clipping on in fog. When the big thing emerges from the soupy grey and breaks your boat in half, you don't really want to be attached to either half of it as they bubble down.

That's not a reason not to clip on, that's a reason why you should always carry a knife on you when out on the water.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

That's not a reason not to clip on, that's a reason why you should always carry a knife on you when out on the water.

Imagine your boat being struck by a vessel, your clipped on, get knocked out, and your vessel is rapidly sinking. Instead of having a chance to float away as the automatic lifejackets inflates, you get dragged under with the sinking vessel. Or you are conscious but drop your knife, panic, freeze, whatever. Maybe, you just unclip and get off the boat. There is no right or wrong way, each skipper has to decide based on the risk assessment they make for the situation they are in.

 

[Koeketiene]

Imagine your boat being struck by a vessel, your clipped on, get knocked out, and your vessel is rapidly sinking. Instead of having a chance to float away as the automatic lifejackets inflates, you get dragged under with the sinking vessel. Or you are conscious but drop your knife, panic, freeze, whatever. Maybe, you just unclip and get off the boat. There is no right or wrong way, each skipper has to decide based on the risk assessment they make for the situation they are in.

Out of all of your hypothetical scenarios, NONE would have been made worse by carrying a knife on your person.
But in most of your scenarios it would have given you an extra option.

In it's not just useful in case you should find yourself in a potential MOB situation, a knife can be useful should you find yourself caught in a snake pit of sheets and halyards in the cockpit or fordeck and you need you need to free yourself instantly (squall) or whatever else.

In my experience, carrying a knife on your person when sailing is a no-brainer.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I had a single webbing life line stretched between the main hatch and the foot of the mast on my Gaff Cutter, there was no Boom Vang or other gubbins that prevented a clipped on harness tether running fore and aft. There was a ring bolt on the deck centre line on the fore deck below the steel Horse which ran athwartships, she had a self tacking inner jib, and the foreward end was shackled to the Windlass.
I could clip onto the main life line to work aft of the mast and clip a second tether onto the forward webbing before unclipping the first tether.
The system worked and I felt secure enough, the main faff was stowing the unused tether, usually I would bundle it up and just stuff it into my jacket.

I am thinking of running secondary jackstays from cockpit to mast, as that’s mostly where I am at risk - and this should reduce risk of me sadly dangling over the side if I fall

As the engineer I do such deck work while Madam Navigator steers

 

[veshengro]

It's a question of finding just the right rig or system to suit the boat/person I think. Simple enough to be effective but not so spider web like to cause tripping over or getting tangled up in what should be 'safety lines'
I kept my central jackstay between mast foot and main hatch under some tension and found that the clip on my harness tether would run fore and aft very easily.
I was always singlehanded and had two stainless eye bolts at the forward end of the cockpit, so that when I left the deck to return to the cockpit I could clip a tether onto an eye bolt before I unclipped from the main jackstay. I always felt that it would be just my luck to get chucked over the side just as I climbed into the cockpit thinking I was safe.

PS I used Military Grade load bearing webbing at the time as it was available in a big roll to experiment with, and one third the price of a Chandlery ready made single jackstay.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Out of all of your hypothetical scenarios, NONE would have been made worse by carrying a knife on your person.
But in most of your scenarios it would have given you an extra option.

In it's not just useful in case you should find yourself in a potential MOB situation, a knife can be useful should you find yourself caught in a snake pit of sheets and halyards in the cockpit or fordeck and you need you need to free yourself instantly (squall) or whatever else.

In my experience, carrying a knife on your person when sailing is a no-brainer.

The point that was being discussed was should you be clipped on or not in fog because of a risk that a sudden collision will drag you down if clipped on. I demonstrated that carrying a knife is irrelevant to the risk.

 

[penberth3]

I am thinking of running secondary jackstays from cockpit to mast, as that’s mostly where I am at risk - and this should reduce risk of me sadly dangling over the side if I fall...

If you can dangle over the side your tether is too long.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you can dangle over the side your tether is too long.

Too much information

 

[finestgreen]

If you've not seen it before these guys have thought a lot about the best way to stay tethered to a boat including how to install jackstays (not qualified to critique it but they're persuasive):

Better Jacklines

Including on smaller boats:

Limiting COB Drag Risk On A Smaller Boat

It is a paid subscription to their site but they have a lot of stuff and is good value, I think

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Imagine your boat being struck by a vessel, your clipped on, get knocked out, and your vessel is rapidly sinking. Instead of having a chance to float away as the automatic lifejackets inflates, you get dragged under with the sinking vessel. Or you are conscious but drop your knife, panic, freeze, whatever. Maybe, you just unclip and get off the boat. There is no right or wrong way, each skipper has to decide based on the risk assessment they make for the situation they are in.

As an alternative, you could buy a boat that doesn’t sink. Or at least, not for a week or 2.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If you can dangle over the side your tether is too long.

Precisely.

But to enable me to reach boom my tether must be at full extent if clipped to the side jack stays on their prebuilt fitments. Hence the need for secondary stays at midline. Which presents issues due to pilot house and clerestory hatch - otherwise I would have done it when we bought boat 5 years ago

 

[capnsensible]

Precisely.

But to enable me to reach boom my tether must be at full extent if clipped to the side jack stays on their prebuilt fitments. Hence the need for secondary stays at midline. Which presents issues due to pilot house and clerestory hatch - otherwise I would have done it when we bought boat 5 years ago

When you are near the mast, simply sit down and transfer your tether to a shroud. Then you will be able to do whatever you need to do safely on the average yacht. Been the done it plenty.

 

[capnsensible]

Top tip. If you are worried about not being able to unclipped your tether rapidly, simply practice it frequently. The second 100 times you do this will be quicker than the first 100.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

When you are near the mast, simply sit down and transfer your tether to a shroud. Then you will be able to do whatever you need to do safely on the average yacht. Been the done it plenty.

Attaching to shroud does not give me the security I want, otherwise I would not consider an improvement.

You have been there and done it plenty - but not on my boat or with my disabilities