Rule 17 -- Vid of a close encounter....

[Mark-1]

As Mrs Merton always said: "Let's have a heated debate!"

 

[RunAgroundHard]

It came through my feed a while back. It makes you wonder how people comprehend situations. Situational awareness 0, brown under pants, 1.

 

[winch2]

Try that in The Solent and see how u get on.

 

[capnsensible]

Was there a collision?

 

[Mark-1]

I was expecting 500 posts by now; possibly a few death threats. So much to argue about here, we don't know who is stand on, it involves rule 17, the (lack of) definition of a narrow channel....

YBW is a shadow of its former self.

 

[Stemar]

ISTM that we need to know a bit more before we start chucking buckets of blame around. On the face of it, the yacht under sail is stand on, but there are plenty of places where it would be the ship - constrained by draft, shipping lane, or whatever, or the yacht could have tacked into the path of the ship (breach of 17(1)).

Even if the yacht was stand on, for me, I reckon that 17(2) comes into play when I'm 1/2 a mile from a ship. Might certainly isn't right, but it takes a fair distance to turn or stop that much might, and a tack in good time to pass astern keeps everyone's pants clean.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Looks like the SV thought he could pass ahead of the ship, then had a bout of indecision, then decided to bear away, then failed to get his sails trimmed so lost control of the boat, then got it all sorted and they missed each other. Moral of the story-------Make a decision sooner rather than later and avoid all that agro and stress.

 

[capnsensible]

I was expecting 500 posts by now; possibly a few death threats. So much to argue about here, we don't know who is stand on, it involves rule 17, the (lack of) definition of a narrow channel....

YBW is a shadow of its former self.

Looks like posters have matured beyond being hooked by trolling.

 

[winch2]

Might certainly isn't right

Well its Saturday so might as well get the ball rolling. I'm terribly sorry to pour cold water on whatever it is you've been taught but Im afraid "Might" is always right when not in the classroom. Maybe you can share your views with us on the tanker incident off Cowes ten or so years ago.

 

[Dellquay13]

Is no-one going to comment on the spelling mistake and complain about educational standards in general in the tick-tock generation?

(NB incorrect spelling of TikTok brand name for comedic effect)

 

[Stemar]

Maybe you can share your views with us on the tanker incident off Cowes ten or so years ago

IIRC, Might was right in that case, the tanker was in the precautionary zone, where yachts have to keep out of the way of the big boys.

Im afraid "Might" is always right when not in the classroom.

On that, in practice, we can agree, but it's a rule to apply well before there's a risk of collision, unless you regard a risk of collision as existing a few miles away when AIS says the CPA is uncomfortably close. To my mind, in open waters, that's the time to make a big enough change of course to be obvious to the ship that you're doing it, then chase it's stern to pass comfortably clear.

I do most of my sailing in Lake Solent, so I assume that any biggun is constrained by draught or in a narrow channel, and plan my dodging as soon as I see it.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I was expecting 500 posts by now; possibly a few death threats. So much to argue about here, we don't know who is stand on, it involves rule 17, the (lack of) definition of a narrow channel....

YBW is a shadow of its former self.

I was moderately mauled by some for suggesting that the entire western Solent was not a narrow channel to a 200ft ship. So on that basis the entire English channel is narrow to s cruise ship.

 

[wonkywinch]

Could have had someone's eye out doing that

 

[DJE]

Sailing under Solent Rules. When on port tack there is no need to keep a lookout under the headsail untill someone calls "starboard". And then the preferred action is to reply "we're racing".

 

[LittleSister]

I have done something very similar, though slightly earlier, a few years back, under Rule 17(a)(ii). (There was no narrow channel, no TSS, etc.) Being both a non-purist and a scaredy-cat I started the engine to ensure the speed and certainty of the 180 degree reverse ferret.

I was single-handed at the time (on my way back from Brittany to Devon, since you ask) and hence unable to consult the ColRegs in the moment for detailed guidance, so I had to improvise a suitable hand signal to the ship's bridge crew.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Well its Saturday so might as well get the ball rolling. I'm terribly sorry to pour cold water on whatever it is you've been taught but Im afraid "Might" is always right when not in the classroom. Maybe you can share your views with us on the tanker incident off Cowes ten or so years ago.

Sorry but you’re completely wrong. In my experience in open waters most ships will obey IRPCS. And also in my personal experience the bridge watchkeeping officers of ships would much rather yachts obeyed IRPCS too.

AIS is your friend. The only thing the large ship will probably not do is make large and substantial alterations of course or speed. It costs them money. They WILL tweak their course to open up the CPA.

 

[lustyd]

On that, in practice, we can agree, but it's a rule to apply well before there's a risk of collision, unless you regard a risk of collision as existing a few miles away when AIS says the CPA is uncomfortably close. To my mind, in open waters, that's the time to make a big enough change of course to be obvious to the ship that you're doing it, then chase it's stern to pass comfortably clear.

Even that’s not always easy. We were sailing south of the TSS off Lands End this year and something big was on a collision course for an hour or so. We weren’t in the TSS so technically we’re stand on vessel. Had I turned stbd I’d have entered the TSS shortly afterwards and been forced to return to original heading. Had I turned port we’d have likely remained on collision course.

I called them on the VHF and he politely said no worries will leave you to port, then turned 20 to stbd.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Sorry but you’re completely wrong. In my experience in open waters most ships will obey IRPCS. And also in my personal experience the bridge watchkeeping officers of ships would much rather yachts obeyed IRPCS too.

AIS is your friend. The only thing the large ship will probably not do is make large and substantial alterations of course or speed. It costs them money. They WILL tweak their course to open up the CPA.

My recent experience, though a one off, was not like that. The ship just blasted up the western solent at 13-15kn sounding 5 hoots every so often. Generally though, commercial shipping is easy to predict and quite gentlemanly.

 

[john_morris_uk]

My recent experience, though a one off, was not like that. The ship just blasted up the western solent at 13-15kn sounding 5 hoots every so often. Generally though, commercial shipping is easy to predict and quite gentlemanly.

The Solent isn’t open waters…!

 

[capnsensible]

Even that’s not always easy. We were sailing south of the TSS off Lands End this year and something big was on a collision course for an hour or so. We weren’t in the TSS so technically we’re stand on vessel. Had I turned stbd I’d have entered the TSS shortly afterwards and been forced to return to original heading. Had I turned port we’d have likely remained on collision course.

I called them on the VHF and he politely said no worries will leave you to port, then turned 20 to stbd.

Very useful tool. A quick chat with the bridge watchkeeper generally 'resolves ambiguities' nicely!

I've heard lots of conversations between big ship drivers too. Mostly polite!